You wouldn’t pay for a driver which makes your latest and greatest graphics card work properly, enables all the latest and greatest features and ensures that you get the experience you paid for.
So why do we end-up paying for Powerpath? I know there are features like encryption which yes I might agree that paying for is fair but multipathing which has got to be a fairly basic feature? So what do we end up doing, we end-up using DMP; then we have a problem on a Clariion and we get the response, well it’d work if you used Powerpath. Aaaarrrgggghhh!!
Yes, Powerpath/SE is free but we are trying to move to standard builds and the server guys don’t want to think about whether a host going to be attached to a DMX or CX; or perhaps even both. Powerpath/SE doesn’t give me load-balancing for my paths and DMP does. And the accountants don’t want to pay the license fees attached to Powerpath as we already have a site license for Storage Foundations and why should we buy two products which do the same thing!!!
It drives me nuts!!
I suppose I could use SVC just to get round this issue; at least IBM include the essential drivers to make their devices work!
If multipathing is a fairly basic feature why can’t they get it right with DMP?
You did pay for DMP as part of that site license, it wasn’t free.
Yes there are “free” MPIO implementations available but they don’t do close to anything PowerPath does (10 years worth of development as well as the Migration Enabler, Encryption and the (upcoming) vStorage plugins) so I don’t see why EMC should compete on price with things which can’t compete on functionality.
Not only have a lot of PowerPath customers come back to PowerPath after dropping it for “free” MPIO but behind actually supporting whatever third party virtualization solution some people might have gone with what do you think the most requested item in that space is?
PowerPath support for the third party virtualization solutions.
This comes up numerous times per year and it’s not just customers who bring it up its vendors.
It always brings a smile to my face when I see one of those guys bash PowerPath knowing that every couple of months like clockwork their business development team is trying to schedule a meeting to lobby for PowerPath support for their product.
When that doesn’t happen they get annoyed, attack the product in public saying the multipathing market won’t exist in a few months only to call again looking to arrange yet another meeting to lobby for PowerPath support.
Some of the PowerPath bashers have been doing this for *years*, so they obviously don’t see PowerPath as being fairly basic.
Zilla, if I was putting in PowerPath to support a third party storage solution, I would expect to pay! I kind of only object to paying for it to support my DMX/CX environment; especially CX which has given us all kind of problems with non-Powerpath multipathing software. DMX is fine with DMP, don’t see any issues with that.
If the CX is giving you trouble that’s an issue for EMC support. If DMP with the CX is giving you trouble that’s an issue for Veritas support.
I have my own views on pricing but since you’re a DMX/CX customer I’m a bit surprised negotiations didn’t take PowerPath into account.
Maybe it’s because DMP was already in place.
FWIW – the base “PowerPath/SE” also works with Symmetrix to provide basic path failover, so it doesn’t matter which array you are connecting your hosts to if that’s all you need.
Installing it on every host also affords you the ability to upgrade to full PowerPath, PPME or PP Encryption non-disruptively and without reboot or restart.
Unfortunately I need the full multipathing capability; I must say that DMP has got better, just at times it seems to have it’s moments; especially with the CX range.
here here storagebod,
Yes there are valid reasons as to why powerpath could have some extra licensable features such as encryption.
Where has the value add gone from the storage industry?
Actually, Microsoft’s MPIO is pretty powerful and free. Some companies (you know who) even wrote the DSM for it, and include it with the product.
So, I guess you’re arguing for a packaging change: defray the cost of PowerPath R+D, support, etc. by raising the price of the underlying storage array?
I mean, fundamentally, there are costs associated with having the product and keeping it current — but, if I’m reading you right, you think it should be buried somewhere else?
— Chuck
The only difference between powerpath/SE and Powerpath regular is a license key.
It wouldn’t hurt to make the powerpath software a part of your standard build, then when you need the added load-balancing you just throw a key at it and run ‘powermt set polciy=…’ to.
It costs $$ because it even in ‘free mode’ does more, and better, than most of the “freeware” load balancing packages.
Also – don’t forget that the registered initiator type (in connectivity status on the Clariion) has to be changed with certain operating systems / failover packages to keep the lun from repeatedly trespassing.
Firstly let me say I don’t deny that Powerpath is a good multipathing package but for a huge amount of our needs, DMP does the job. The real problem has been in the past that DMP and Clariion does not appear to be a good mix and when the Luns trespass we have found loss of connectivity to the disk.
Actually with the later versions of Flare, it’s better. Now, in the past when we have raised the issue; the response normally comes back; ‘It works okay with Powerpath’. This has led to a number of responses but ultimately it resulted in an almost complete loss of faith by some of the end-users in the Clariion product range (there were some other issues with Unisys’ support in the UK territory).
On some of these servers, DMX and Clariion disk was presented and to be honest, we’ve not had issues with DMX and DMP. And I really didn’t want to go down the sheer amount of hassle of trying to get two multipathing products to co-exist on the same server (been there, done that, it tends to be a hack); so we were looking to have to license PP for these hosts to get multipathing/path failover to work.
The whole thing did EMC no favours at all and seriously was one of the contributing factor to looking at other vendors.
So Chuck, if you want to ensure that the Clariion can live up to its potential as a five nines available array and if Powerpath is one of the components which enables you to get it there and beyond; I think it would be a great idea to bundle it with the array and if you want customers to be able tier disk storage across Clariion and DMX and perhaps not go and buy other vendors’ arrays, it might also be a good idea. All in my opinion of course!
Still, I could tell you the story of when IBM wanted me to pay for someone to help manage issues when they crossed between their own server and storage divisions. That was a short conversation including sex and travel.
Vendors eh? Got to love them!!
P.S. I won’t tell you at least one EMC salesman’s suggestion; makes me wonder just how under licensed PowerPath might be tho’